Comments on: Poor misunderstood taxes http://twentythirdfloor.co.za/2009/09/02/poor-misunderstood-taxes/ Creating a technical business advantage through analysis, research and insight. Fri, 04 May 2012 14:30:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Sean Nieuwoudt http://twentythirdfloor.co.za/2009/09/02/poor-misunderstood-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-15210 Sean Nieuwoudt Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:21:52 +0000 http://twentythirdfloor.co.za/?p=397#comment-15210 Thanks for the response David, I am just at a point of complete irritation with the amount of money I loose to government each month and it feels we really are not getting anything in return. Thanks for the links, I'll check them out. Regards, Sean Thanks for the response David,

I am just at a point of complete irritation with the amount of money I loose to government each month and it feels we really are not getting anything in return.

Thanks for the links, I’ll check them out.

Regards,
Sean

]]> By: David Kirk http://twentythirdfloor.co.za/2009/09/02/poor-misunderstood-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-15209 David Kirk Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:19:52 +0000 http://twentythirdfloor.co.za/?p=397#comment-15209 Yup, you point out several important problems with the way taxes are spent in SA. These are problems with expenditure rather than taxes themselves, but I think from your response we agree anyway. I'm certainly not saying everything is perfect in our government! Three, small, responses to your comment. South Africa is not a wealthy country, no matter what anyone tries to tell you. So even if our taxes were spent effectively, we'd still have less-than-stellar quality government services. If you are paying R14k in taxes each month, you are in the top couple of percent of earners in SA. You will pay more than the benefit you get, as is the nature of a progressive tax system. Pretty much every country in the world has a progressive tax system. Marginal tax rate in the UK was just upped to 50%. We're not alone here. You've picked some good points where government services are failing us. Seriously, does anybody think these areas are working well? However, there are other areas when money is better spent. It's a little unfair to point out the glaringly bad examples and conclude on that basis. Specifically relating to vaccines, these are freely available to children under 6, and the non-flu vaccinations are generally the more important one for our country's health. See these two links for more detail <a href="http://www.joburg.org.za/content/view/4165/202/" rel="nofollow">More free vaccinations</a> and <a href="http://www.capegateway.gov.za/eng/directories/services/11502/6539" rel="nofollow">Western Cape DoH instructions on what vaccinations to get and explaining that they are free</a> and details around <a href="http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=1049548" rel="nofollow">free rabies vaccinations</a> as a special programme to manage this fatal disease. So yes, your frustrations are fair, but the cliched complaints against taxes are still unfounded. Yup, you point out several important problems with the way taxes are spent in SA. These are problems with expenditure rather than taxes themselves, but I think from your response we agree anyway. I’m certainly not saying everything is perfect in our government!

Three, small, responses to your comment.

South Africa is not a wealthy country, no matter what anyone tries to tell you. So even if our taxes were spent effectively, we’d still have less-than-stellar quality government services. If you are paying R14k in taxes each month, you are in the top couple of percent of earners in SA. You will pay more than the benefit you get, as is the nature of a progressive tax system. Pretty much every country in the world has a progressive tax system. Marginal tax rate in the UK was just upped to 50%. We’re not alone here.
You’ve picked some good points where government services are failing us. Seriously, does anybody think these areas are working well? However, there are other areas when money is better spent. It’s a little unfair to point out the glaringly bad examples and conclude on that basis.
Specifically relating to vaccines, these are freely available to children under 6, and the non-flu vaccinations are generally the more important one for our country’s health. See these two links for more detail More free vaccinations and Western Cape DoH instructions on what vaccinations to get and explaining that they are free and details around free rabies vaccinations as a special programme to manage this fatal disease.

So yes, your frustrations are fair, but the cliched complaints against taxes are still unfounded.

]]> By: Sean Nieuwoudt http://twentythirdfloor.co.za/2009/09/02/poor-misunderstood-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-15208 Sean Nieuwoudt Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:47:10 +0000 http://twentythirdfloor.co.za/?p=397#comment-15208 I understand your argument, but have you actually tried to ride the train or any other form of government sponsored public transport in SA? Last time I checked, I have to pay cash for any vaccinations that I want to have. The tax regulation is fundamentally flawed, corruption is ripe and government really don't give a hoot - I do not see the point of paying tax. Maybe if I actually received some real benefit from the 14k + a month in tax that I have to pay. Don't get my started on our useless police force... S I understand your argument, but have you actually tried to ride the train or any other form of government sponsored public transport in SA?

Last time I checked, I have to pay cash for any vaccinations that I want to have.

The tax regulation is fundamentally flawed, corruption is ripe and government really don’t give a hoot – I do not see the point of paying tax.

Maybe if I actually received some real benefit from the 14k + a month in tax that I have to pay.

Don’t get my started on our useless police force…

S

]]> By: David Kirk http://twentythirdfloor.co.za/2009/09/02/poor-misunderstood-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-15134 David Kirk Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:41:27 +0000 http://twentythirdfloor.co.za/?p=397#comment-15134 Well yes, large mismatches as you say, but also very progressive, redistributive taxes, and evidence of fraud and wastage - all of which we have in SA! [ok, slight edit, I don't actually think that current system is too progressive, but proposed NHI-related changes feel like they might push it over the edge] Well yes, large mismatches as you say, but also very progressive, redistributive taxes, and evidence of fraud and wastage – all of which we have in SA!
[ok, slight edit, I don't actually think that current system is too progressive, but proposed NHI-related changes feel like they might push it over the edge]

]]> By: Francois Botha http://twentythirdfloor.co.za/2009/09/02/poor-misunderstood-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-15133 Francois Botha Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:38:16 +0000 http://twentythirdfloor.co.za/?p=397#comment-15133 Totally agree. To add to point 5, I feel there shouldn't be a mismatch between the tax source and the tax use, i.e. fuel taxes should be used to improve our infrastructure, not pay teachers' salaries. I admit this won't always be possible, but I think it's when large mismatches occur that people feel they are paying too much tax, because they probably won't see the effect as easily. Totally agree.

To add to point 5, I feel there shouldn’t be a mismatch between the tax source and the tax use, i.e. fuel taxes should be used to improve our infrastructure, not pay teachers’ salaries.

I admit this won’t always be possible, but I think it’s when large mismatches occur that people feel they are paying too much tax, because they probably won’t see the effect as easily.

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